Because he was unwilling to pay a fine or do community service, one of the Bath protesterswas sentenced to jail at the trial yesterday. The other four were let go with fines, community service, and the promise to go forth and sin no more.
What was accomplished? I doubt anyone's mind was changed one way or the other.
Thu, 11/29/2007 - 10:48 — Rottenchester
I don't think getting arrested helped their cause at all, especially in conservative small-town Bath, NY. If the Bath PD had the deft touch of the Fairport PD (which basically defused the situation by tricking the protesters to come outside), this would have been a non-issue.
Thu, 11/29/2007 - 13:52 — Peter (not verified)
What was accomplished? What has voting the dems into office last election accomplished? Not ending the war, even though that was their mandate.
The Bath Five did what their consciences impelled them to do, which is more than a lot of other people. They made a statement, they demanded an end to an illegal/unjust/disastrous war, and although Randy Kuhl is nothing more than a Stepford Congressman that can't be counted onto think or act for himself, they tried to hold him accountable. Are there other ways of doing the same thing, yes...but can one expect different results w/ Kuhl? NO. They also exposed Kuhl for the paranoid nut job that he is when he began barricading his offices and threatened to start packing heat.
Even though the Dems have failed the electorate yet again with their half-hearted attempts to ammend for their mistakes and begin to end this war, the ONLY HOPE for this district is to fully engage in next year's election to unseat Kuhl. His opponent, Eric Massa, strikes me as someone who walks his talk and who isn't afraid to step on some toes, even those within his own party. He'll fight to end this war...and if not, I wouldn't be surprised if these folks organized another sit in...
Thu, 11/29/2007 - 14:22 — Rottenchester
The "consciences impelled" argument carries no water with me. When one's conscience starts to dictate that you need to do something illegal to get your point across, especially when well-organized lawful protests were also getting a lot of media attention, then maybe one's conscience needs a little careful examination.
Practical politics -- convincing others to do what you think is right -- happens in the messy realm of human society. In that realm, conscience is a beginning, not an end. Conscience informs every successful movement, but successful movements also take into account what modes of communication will be effective with their fellow human beings.
I agree that anyone who opposes the war should spend their energy on working for Massa's election, rather than sitting in, going to court, and spending time in the slammer. The former might change the course of the war. The latter almost certainly will not.
Fri, 11/30/2007 - 01:25 — Peter (not verified)
Our country has a rich history in civil disobedience and much of the progress our country has made has been a direct result of it...exs.slavery, civil rights, vietnam, etc.--from thoreau to mlk and beyond. Take mlk on throeau:
"During my student days I read Henry David Thoreau’s essay On Civil Disobedience for the first time. Here, in this courageous New Englander's refusal to pay his taxes and his choice of jail rather than support a war that would spread slavery’s territory into Mexico, I made my first contact with the theory of nonviolent resistance. Fascinated by the idea of refusing to cooperate with an evil system, I was so deeply moved that I reread the work several times.
I became convinced that noncooperation with evil is as much a moral obligation as is cooperation with good...The teachings of Thoreau came alive in our civil rights movement...Whether expressed in a sit-in at lunch counters, a freedom ride into Mississippi, a peaceful protest in Albany, Georgia, a bus boycott in Montgomery, Alabama, these are outgrowths of Thoreau’s insistence that evil must be resisted and that no moral man can patiently adjust to injustice."
CD is not the only way or necessarily (at times) the most effective way to provoke social change...it is a tactic that should be used in concert with others, and one that shouldn't be so easily dismissed...(in my humble opinion)
Fri, 11/30/2007 - 08:57 — Rottenchester
Everybody likes to quote King and follow his example. He was a great man, but one faced with a far different challenge than the anti-war protesters today. MLK's constituency was disenfranchised, so organizing them to vote was pointless. Sit-ins (and other CD) were the only methods King could use to get the attention of those in power.
The Bath protesters were not disenfranchised. So, unlike MLK, CD is the wrong technique for them to use. Organizing and inspiring voters is the right one.
MLK was smart enough to match his technique to the problem at hand. That's the MLK lesson that the Bath protesters should emulate.
Comments
What was accomplished? I doubt anyone's mind was changed one way or the other.
I don't think getting arrested helped their cause at all, especially in conservative small-town Bath, NY. If the Bath PD had the deft touch of the Fairport PD (which basically defused the situation by tricking the protesters to come outside), this would have been a non-issue.
What was accomplished? What has voting the dems into office last election accomplished? Not ending the war, even though that was their mandate.
The Bath Five did what their consciences impelled them to do, which is more than a lot of other people. They made a statement, they demanded an end to an illegal/unjust/disastrous war, and although Randy Kuhl is nothing more than a Stepford Congressman that can't be counted onto think or act for himself, they tried to hold him accountable. Are there other ways of doing the same thing, yes...but can one expect different results w/ Kuhl? NO. They also exposed Kuhl for the paranoid nut job that he is when he began barricading his offices and threatened to start packing heat.
Even though the Dems have failed the electorate yet again with their half-hearted attempts to ammend for their mistakes and begin to end this war, the ONLY HOPE for this district is to fully engage in next year's election to unseat Kuhl. His opponent, Eric Massa, strikes me as someone who walks his talk and who isn't afraid to step on some toes, even those within his own party. He'll fight to end this war...and if not, I wouldn't be surprised if these folks organized another sit in...
The "consciences impelled" argument carries no water with me. When one's conscience starts to dictate that you need to do something illegal to get your point across, especially when well-organized lawful protests were also getting a lot of media attention, then maybe one's conscience needs a little careful examination.
Practical politics -- convincing others to do what you think is right -- happens in the messy realm of human society. In that realm, conscience is a beginning, not an end. Conscience informs every successful movement, but successful movements also take into account what modes of communication will be effective with their fellow human beings.
I agree that anyone who opposes the war should spend their energy on working for Massa's election, rather than sitting in, going to court, and spending time in the slammer. The former might change the course of the war. The latter almost certainly will not.
Our country has a rich history in civil disobedience and much of the progress our country has made has been a direct result of it...exs.slavery, civil rights, vietnam, etc.--from thoreau to mlk and beyond. Take mlk on throeau:
"During my student days I read Henry David Thoreau’s essay On Civil Disobedience for the first time. Here, in this courageous New Englander's refusal to pay his taxes and his choice of jail rather than support a war that would spread slavery’s territory into Mexico, I made my first contact with the theory of nonviolent resistance. Fascinated by the idea of refusing to cooperate with an evil system, I was so deeply moved that I reread the work several times.
I became convinced that noncooperation with evil is as much a moral obligation as is cooperation with good...The teachings of Thoreau came alive in our civil rights movement...Whether expressed in a sit-in at lunch counters, a freedom ride into Mississippi, a peaceful protest in Albany, Georgia, a bus boycott in Montgomery, Alabama, these are outgrowths of Thoreau’s insistence that evil must be resisted and that no moral man can patiently adjust to injustice."
CD is not the only way or necessarily (at times) the most effective way to provoke social change...it is a tactic that should be used in concert with others, and one that shouldn't be so easily dismissed...(in my humble opinion)
Everybody likes to quote King and follow his example. He was a great man, but one faced with a far different challenge than the anti-war protesters today. MLK's constituency was disenfranchised, so organizing them to vote was pointless. Sit-ins (and other CD) were the only methods King could use to get the attention of those in power.
The Bath protesters were not disenfranchised. So, unlike MLK, CD is the wrong technique for them to use. Organizing and inspiring voters is the right one.
MLK was smart enough to match his technique to the problem at hand. That's the MLK lesson that the Bath protesters should emulate.